Volume II Part 40 (2/2)

& M^d only dissenting.

M^r Gov^r Morris moved to strike out the word ”limits” in the subst.i.tute, and insert the word ”jurisdiction”. (This also was meant to guard the case of Vermont, the jurisdiction of N. York not extending over Vermont which was in the exercise of sovereignty, tho' Vermont was within the a.s.serted limits of New York.)

On this question

N. H. ay. Mas. ay. C^t ay. N. J. no. P^a ay. Del. ay. M^d ay.

V^a ay. N. C. no. S. C. no. Geo. no.

M^r L. Martin urged the unreasonableness of forcing & guaranteeing the people of Virginia beyond the Mountains, the Western people of N.

Carolina & of Georgia, & the people of Maine, to continue under the States now governing them, without the consent of those States to their separation. Even if they should become the _majority_, the majority of _Counties_, as in Virginia may still hold fast the dominion over them.

Again the majority may place the seat of Government entirely among themselves & for their own conveniency, and still keep the injured parts of the States in subjection, under the guarantee of the Gen^l Government ag^{st} domestic violence. He wished M^r Wilson had thought a little sooner of the value of _political_ bodies. In the beginning, when the rights of the small States were in question, they were phantoms, ideal beings. Now when the Great States were to be affected, political societies were of a sacred nature. He repeated and enlarged on the unreasonableness of requiring the small States to guarantee the Western claims of the large ones.--It was said yesterday by M^r Gov^r Morris, that if the large States were to be split to pieces without their consent, their representatives here would take their leave. If the Small States are to be required to guarantee them in this manner, it will be found that the Representatives of other States will with equal firmness take their leave of the Const.i.tution on the table.

It was moved by M^r L. Martin to postpone the subst.i.tuted article, in order to take up the following.

”The Legislature of the U. S. shall have power to erect New States within as well as without the territory claimed by the several States or either of them, and admit the same into the Union: provided that nothing in this Const.i.tution shall be construed to affect the claim of the U. S. to vacant lands ceded to them by the late treaty of peace, which pa.s.sed in the negative: N. J. Del. & M^d only ay.

On the question to agree to M^r Gov^r Morris's subst.i.tuted article as amended in the words following.

”New States may be admitted by the Legislature into the Union: but no new State shall be hereafter formed or erected within the jurisdiction of any of the present States without the consent of the Legislature of such State as well as of the General Legislature”

N. H. ay. Mas. ay. C^t ay. N. J. no. P^a ay. Del. no. M^d no.

V^a ay. N. C. ay. S. C. ay. Geo. ay.

M^r d.i.c.kinson moved to add the following clause to the last--

”Nor shall any State be formed by the junction of two or more States or parts thereof, without the consent of the Legislature of such States, as well as of the Legislature of the U. States,”

which was agreed to without a count of the votes.

M^r Carrol moved to add--”Provided nevertheless that nothing in this Const.i.tution shall be construed to affect the claim of the U. S. to vacant lands ceded to them by the Treaty of peace.” This he said might be understood as relating to lands not claimed by any particular States, but he had in view also some of the claims of particular States.

M^r Wilson was ag^{st} the motion. There was nothing in the Const.i.tution affecting one way or the other the claims of the U. S. & it was best to insert nothing, leaving every thing on that litigated subject in statu quo.

M^r Madison considered the claim of the U. S. as in fact favored by the jurisdiction of the Judicial power of the U. S. over controversies to which they should be parties. He thought it best on the whole to be silent on the subject. He did not view the proviso of Mr. Carrol as dangerous; but to make it neutral & fair, it ought to go further & declare that the claims of particular States also should not be affected.

M^r Sherman thought the proviso harmless, especially with the addition suggested by M^r Madison in favor of the claims of particular States.

M^r Baldwin did not wish any undue advantage to be given to Georgia. He thought the proviso proper with the addition proposed. It should be remembered that if Georgia has gained much by the cession in the Treaty of peace, she was in danger during the war of a Uti possidetis.

M^r Rutlidge thought it wrong to insert a proviso where there was nothing which it could restrain, or on which it could operate.

M^r Carrol withdrew his motion and moved the following.

”Nothing in this Const.i.tution shall be construed to alter the claims of the U. S. or of the individual States to the Western territory, but all such claims shall be examined into & decided upon, by the Supreme Court of the U. States.”

M^r Gov^r Morris moved to postpone this in order to take up the following.

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