Volume II Part 29 (1/2)

M^r M^cHenry conceived that power to be included in the power of war.

M^r Wilson. Pennsylvania exports the produce of Mary^d N. Jersey, Delaware & will by & by when the River Delaware is opened, export for N.

York. In favoring the general power over exports therefore, he opposed the particular interest of his State. He remarked that the power had been attacked by reasoning which could only have held good in case the Gen^l Gov^t had been _compelled_, instead of _authorized_, to lay duties on exports. To deny this power is to take from the Common Gov^t half the regulation of trade. It was his opinion that a power over exports might be more effectual than that over imports in obtaining beneficial treaties of commerce.

M^r Gerry was strenuously opposed to the power over exports. It might be made use of to compel the States to comply with the will of the Gen^l Government, and to grant it any new powers which might be demanded. We have given it more power already than we know how will be exercised. It will enable the Gen^l Gov^t to oppress the States as much as Ireland is oppressed by Great Britain.

M^r Fitzimmons[36] would be ag^{st} a tax on exports to be laid immediately; but was for giving a power of laying the tax when a proper time may call for it. This would certainly be the case when America should become a manufacturing Country. He ill.u.s.trated his argument by the duties in G. Britain on wool &c.

[36] ”Mr. Fitzsimons is a Merchant of considerable talents, and speaks very well I am told, in the Legislature of Pennsylvania. He is about 40 years old.”--Pierce's Notes, _Am. Hist. Rev._, iii., 328.

Col. Mason. If he were for reducing the States to mere corporations as seemed to be the tendency of some arguments, he should be for subjecting their exports as well as imports to a power of general taxation. He went on a principle often advanced & in which he concurred, that ”a majority when interested will oppress the minority.” This maxim had been verified by our own Legislature (of Virginia). If we compare the States in this point of view the 8 Northern States have an interest different from the five South^n States; and have in one branch of the legislature 36 votes ag^{st} 29. and in the other in the proportion of 8 ag^{st} 5. The Southern States had therefore ground for their suspicions. The case of Exports was not the same with that of imports. The latter were the same throughout the States; the former very different. As to Tobacco other nations do raise it, and are capable of raising it as well as Virg^a &c.

The impolicy of taxing that article had been demonstrated by the experiment of Virginia.

M^r Clymer[37] remarked that every State might reason with regard to its particular productions, in the same manner as the Southern States. The middle States may apprehend an oppression of their wheat flour, provisions &c. and with more reason, as these articles were exposed to a compet.i.tion in foreign markets not incident to Tob^o rice &c. They may apprehend also combinations ag^{st} them between the Eastern & Southern States as much as the latter can apprehend them between the Eastern & middle. He moved as a qualification of the power of taxing Exports that it should be restrained to regulations of trade by inserting after the word ”duty” sect 4 art VII the words, ”for the purpose of revenue.”

[37] ”Mr. Clymer is a Lawyer of some abilities;--he is a respectable Man and much esteemed. Mr. Clymer is about 40 years old.”--Pierce's Notes, _Am. Hist. Rev._, iii., 328.

On question on M^r Clymer's motion

N. H. no. Ma.s.s. no. C^t no. N. J. ay. P^a ay. Del. ay. M^d no.

V^a no. N. C. no. S. C. no. Geo. no.

M^r Madison. In order to require 2/3 of each House to tax exports, as a lesser evil than a total prohibition moved to insert the words ”unless by consent of two thirds of the Legislature.”

M^r Wilson 2^{ds} and on this question, it pa.s.sed in the Negative.

N. H. ay. Ma.s.s. ay. C^t no. N. J. ay. P^a ay. Del. ay. M^d no.

V^a no (Col. Mason, M^r Randolph M^r Blair no. Gen^l Was.h.i.+ngton & J. M. ay.) N. C. no. S. C. no. Geo. no.

Question on Sect: 4. Art VII. as far as to ”no tax sh^l be laid on exports”--it pa.s.sed in the affirmative.

N. H. no. Ma.s.s. ay. C^t ay. N. J. no. P^a no. Del. no. M^d ay.

V^a ay. (Gen^l W. & J. M. no) N. C. ay. S. C. ay. Geo. ay.

M^r L. Martin, proposed to vary the Sect: 4. art VII so as to allow a prohibition or tax on the importation of slaves. 1. as five slaves are to be counted as 3 free men in the apportionment of Representatives; such a clause would leave an encouragement to this trafic. 2. slaves weakened one part of the Union which the other parts were bound to protect; the privilege of importing them was therefore unreasonable. 3.

it was inconsistent with the principles of the revolution and dishonorable to the American character to have such a feature in the Const.i.tution.

M^r Rutlidge did not see how the importation of slaves could be encouraged by this section. He was not apprehensive of insurrections and would readily exempt the other States from the obligation to protect the Southern against them. Religion & humanity had nothing to do with this question. Interest alone is the governing principle with nations. The true question at present is whether the South^n States shall or shall not be parties to the Union. If the Northern States consult their interest, they will not oppose the increase of slaves which will increase the commodities of which they will become the carriers.

M^r Elseworth was for leaving the clause as it stands, let every State import what it pleases. The morality or wisdom of slavery are considerations belonging to the States themselves. What enriches a part enriches the whole, and the States are the best judges of their particular interest. The old confederation had not meddled with this point, and he did not see any greater necessity for bringing it within the policy of the new one.

M^r Pinkney. South Carolina can never receive the plan if it prohibits the slave trade. In every proposed extension of the powers of Congress, that State has expressly & watchfully excepted that of meddling with the importation of negroes. If the States be all left at liberty on this subject, S. Carolina may perhaps by degrees do of herself what is wished, as Virginia & Maryland already have done.

Adjourned.

WEDNESDAY AUGUST 22. IN CONVENTION.