Volume II Part 28 (1/2)

TUESDAY AUGUST 21. IN CONVENTION

Governour Livingston[35] from the Committee of Eleven to whom was referred the propositions respecting the debts of the several States and also the Militia entered on the 18^{th} inst: delivered the following report:

[35] ”Governor Livingston is confessedly a Man of the first rate talents, but he appears to me rather to indulge a sportiveness of wit, than a strength of thinking. He is however equal to anything, from the extensiveness of his education and genius. His writings teem with satyr and a neatness of style. But he is no Orator, and seems little acquainted with the guiles of policy. He is about 60 years old, and remarkably healthy.”--Pierce's Notes, _Am. Hist.

Rev._, iii., 327.

”The Legislature of the U. S. shall have power to fulfil the engagements which have been entered into by Congress, and to discharge as well the debts of the U. S. as the debts incurred by the several States during the late war, for the common defence and general welfare.”

”To make laws for organizing arming and disciplining the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the U. S. reserving to the States respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by the U. States.”

M^r Gerry considered giving the power only, without adopting the obligation, as destroying the security now enjoyed by the public creditors of the U-- States. He enlarged on the merit of this cla.s.s of citizens, and the solemn faith which had been pledged under the existing Confederation. If their situation should be changed as here proposed great opposition would be excited ag^{st} the plan. He urged also that as the States had made different degrees of exertion to sink their respective debts, those who had done most would be alarmed, if they were now to be saddled with a share of the debts of States which had done least.

M^r Sherman. It means neither more nor less than the confederation as it relates to this subject.

M^r Elseworth moved that the Report delivered in by Gov^r Livingston should lie on the table.--Agreed to nem. con.

Art: VII. Sect. 3 resumed.--M^r d.i.c.kinson moved to postpone this in order to reconsider Art: IV. Sect. 4. and to _limit_ the number of representatives to be allowed to the large States. Unless this were done the small States would be reduced to entire insignificancy, and encouragement given to the importation of slaves.

M^r Sherman would agree to such a reconsideration, but did not see the necessity of postponing the section before the House.--M^r d.i.c.kenson withdrew his motion.

Art: VII. Sect 3. then agreed to 10 ays, Delaware alone being no.

M^r Sherman moved to add to Sect 3. the following clause ”And all accounts of supplies furnished, services performed, and monies advanced by the several States to the U. States, or by the U. S. to the several States shall be adjusted by the same rule.”

M^r Govern^r Morris 2^{ds} the motion.

M^r Ghorum, thought it wrong to insert this in the Const.i.tution. The Legislature will no doubt do what is right. The present Congress have such a power and are now exercising it.

M^r Sherman unless some rule be expressly given none will exist under the new system.

M^r Elseworth. Though The contracts of Congress will be binding, there will be no rule for executing them on the States; and one ought to be provided.

M^r Sherman withdrew his motion to make way for one of M^r Williamson to add to Sect. 3. ”By this rule the several quotas of the States shall be determined in settling the expences of the late war.”

M^r Carrol brought into view the difficulty that might arise on this subject from the establishment of the Const.i.tution as intended without the _unanimous_ consent of the States.

M^r Williamson's motion was postponed nem. con.

Art: VI Sect. 12. which had been postponed of Aug: 15. was now called for by Col. Mason, who wished to know how the proposed amendment as to money bills would be decided, before he agreed to any further points.

M^r Gerry's motion of yesterday that previous to a census, direct taxation be proportioned on the States according to the number of Representatives, was taken up. He observed that the princ.i.p.al acts of Government would probably take place within that period, and it was but reasonable that the States should pay in proportion to their share in them.

M^r Elseworth thought such a rule unjust. There was a great difference between the number of Represent^s and the number of inhabitants as a rule in this case. Even if the former were proportioned as nearly as possible to the latter, it would be a very inaccurate rule. A State might have one Representative only that had inhabitants enough for 1-1/2 or more, if fractions could be applied, &c.--. He proposed to amend the motion by adding the words, ”subject to a final liquidation by the foregoing rule when a census shall have been taken.”

M^r Madison. The last appointment of Cong^s on which the number of Representatives was founded, was conjectural and meant only as a temporary rule till a Census should be established.

M^r Read. The requisitions of Cong^s had been accommodated to the impoverishment produced by the war; and to other local and temporary circ.u.mstances.

M^r Williamson opposed M^r Gerry's motion.