Part 18 (1/2)
_Nov. 29, 1830._
_The Agrarian Outrages of 1830._
It appears to me that the outrages which have taken place in the country are of two descriptions--the first is that open description of outrage, which there is no doubt, may be got the better of by the operation of the ordinary process of law; the second is that description of crime--the destruction of property by fire,--of the perpetrators of which Government have not hitherto been able to discover any trace whatever. I do not know what information the n.o.ble Earl may have received on the subject within the last week, but up to that period we had discovered no traces whatever of these incendiaries.
It is supposed by some n.o.ble Lords, that the perpetrators of the second description of crime--the destruction of property by fire--are foreigners, and that they are following the example set in another country. I believe, however, there is no evidence whatever that foreigners have been engaged in the perpetration of those crimes. It is certain that they have been effected by a conspiracy of some kind or other; but whether the conspirators are foreigners or Englishmen, I believe that no man can at this moment possibly say. As to foreigners being in gaols, I can only say, that with reference to one county--the county of Hants--in which outrages of the most flagrant kind have occurred, there is not one foreigner among the persons with whom Winchester gaol is filled.
_Nov. 29, 1830._
_Our Portuguese Relations affected by the State of Ireland._
In reference to Ireland, it is of great importance that we should be on good terms with Portugal. Unfortunately, the great measure which I had the honour to prepare three years ago, has not answered so as to produce--I will not say all the advantages I expected from it, as I was never sanguine in my expectations, but the amount of advantage which some of your Lords.h.i.+ps and part of the public expected. To use a vulgar expression, a new hare has started, and we must probably look to a length of time ere the agitation excited in Ireland by the new question shall have subsided. Now, I want to know, whether Portugal will not be as important to us during the agitation of that question as it has been previously? Will not our reception in the Tagus, and friendly occupation of it, be as important to England now, as it has been heretofore? I do not now wish to discuss the claims of Don Miguel and Donna Maria--this is not the occasion for it--I only mean to convey my decided opinion, that the friends.h.i.+p of Portugal is necessary to this country. If we deprive Portugal of the advantages of this wine trade for a revenue of 100,000 l., putting political economy and commerce out of the question, we shall make the greatest political blunder that has been seen for a long time past.
_Feb. 21, 1831._
_How is the Government to be carried on after the Reform Bill?_
With respect to another subject (Reform) which must occasion discussion, I quite agree in the determination which has been adopted of postponing all discussions upon it till a future period; but when that period shall arrive, I hope that his Majesty's ministers, who, upon their own responsibility, have brought the question under discussion, will be so kind as to explain to the House in what manner, and by what influence, they propose that the Government of this country--the Monarchical Government of this country--shall be carried on, according to the principles and practice established at the Revolution.
_March 3, 1831._
_The Downfall of the Const.i.tution predicted as the Consequence of the Reform Bill._
It is far from my wish to impute to the n.o.ble Earl (Grey) or his colleagues any desire to introduce revolutionary measures into Parliament; but, I must say this, that having looked at the measure which has been brought into the other House of Parliament under their auspices, I cannot but consider that it alters every interest existing in the country,--that in consequence of its operation, no interest will remain on the footing on which it now stands, and that this alteration must lead to a total alteration of men--of men intrusted with the confidence of Parliament. I am of opinion that this alteration must have a serious effect on the public interests,--an effect which, I confess, I cannot look at without the most serious apprehension. I do not charge the n.o.ble Earl and his colleagues with a desire to overturn the inst.i.tutions of the country, but I cannot look at the alterations proposed by the bill without seeing that those alterations must be followed by a total change of men, and likewise by a total change of the whole system of Government. Why, I ask--for what reason--is all this to be done? I will not now enter into the question of what is the opinion of the other House of Parliament--but I will say again, as I have said before, in the presence of your Lords.h.i.+ps, that I see no reason whatever for altering the const.i.tution of Parliament.
It is my opinion that parliament has well served the country, and that it deserves the thanks of the country for a variety of measures which it has proposed, particularly of late years. I see no reason for the measure now proposed, except that stated by the n.o.ble Earl--namely, his desire to gratify certain individuals in the country. It is possible that a large number, nay, even a majority of individuals, in this country may be desirous of this change, but I see no reason, excepting that, for this measure being introduced or adopted.
Whilst I thus declare my sentiments, I beg your Lords.h.i.+ps to believe that I feel no interest in this question, excepting that which I have in common with every individual in the country. I possess no influence or interest of the description which will be betrayed by the measure now proposed. I am an individual who has served his Majesty for now, I am sorry to say, nearly half a century; I have been in his Majesty's service for forty-five years--for thirty eventful years of that period I have served his Majesty in situations of trust and confidence, in the command of his armies, in emba.s.sies, and in his councils; and the experience which I have acquired in the situations in which I have served his Majesty, enables me, and imposes upon me the duty, to say, that I cannot look at this measure without the most serious apprehensions, that from the period of its adoption, we shall date the downfall of the const.i.tution.
_March 24, 1831._
_Under the Reformed System, how is the King's Government to be carried on?_
I have, myself, examined the bill, with reference to its effects on the county of Southampton. In that county there are several towns--Winchester, Christchurch, Portsmouth, Southampton, and the borough of Lymington. Several boroughs in that county are struck out of the representation by the bill, and there are, besides, a vast number of considerable towns left unrepresented, but the voters of these places are to come into the county const.i.tuency. According to the old system, the voters of the towns had votes for the county; now, copyholders and 50l. householders are to vote for the county. In the towns, these two cla.s.ses are, for the most part, shopkeepers.
I am convinced that there are no less than 4000 or 5000 such inhabitants of towns in Hamps.h.i.+re, who will have votes for the county, as well as the freeholders. Now, of whom does this cla.s.s of electors consist? As I before stated, they are shopkeepers--respectable shopkeepers--in the towns. I beg to ask, are they fit persons to be the only electors to return county members to a Parliament, which Parliament is to govern the affairs of this great nation, consisting of 100,000,000 of subjects, and so many various relations, foreign, domestic, colonial, commercial, and manufacturing? Men of the description I have mentioned, with their prejudices and peculiar interests, however respectable as a body, cannot be fit to be the only electors of members of the House of Commons. But, I beg to say that, however respectable this, or any other cla.s.s of electors may be, there is a strong reason against any uniformity of system in the representation of the country. I have heard already of the establishment, in this town, of a committee formed for the purpose of recommending candidates for the representation to the different towns throughout the country. I confess, I do not believe that this committee has been established more than a few days; but I beg to say that, taking into consideration the means of combinations, and the facilities of communications in the country, such a body is dangerous. I know that such committees, in other countries, have been found to be effectual in putting down the Government. And I ask whether you should allow such a uniform system of election--it matters not in whose hands it is placed--that a committee, sitting in London, shall have the power to dictate what members shall be returned for Leeds, or for Manchester, for instance? I wish to know what security n.o.ble Lords have for their seats in this House, if such a committee as this should exist at the first general election of a reformed Parliament? But, my Lords, these are not all the objections which I entertain to this measure; I have others, founded upon facts, which I know to have existed in other countries. I was in France when the law of election was pa.s.sed, in the year 1817; and this circ.u.mstance deserves your Lords.h.i.+ps' attention, because the situation of the two countries is not dissimilar. At that period there were, in each department 300 persons, who, paying the highest amount of taxes, were chosen to manage the representation. The King and Government altered this, and gave the power of choosing representatives to persons paying taxes to the amount of 300 francs. Two years afterwards, they were obliged to alter the law again, and form two cla.s.ses of electors.
Since then, there have been two general elections, one more unfavourable than the other to the Government; and the matter ended in the formation of a Parliament, the spirit of which rendered it impossible for a Government to act.
My Lords, I do not mean here to justify the Government of Charles X.; and I trust the n.o.ble and learned Lord (Lord Brougham) will allow me, on this occasion, to declare that I never wrote to Prince Polignac in my life (much as I have been accused of encouraging the proceedings of that person), and I have never written to Charles X. from the time that monarch lost his son, and his grandson was born. In fact, I have never corresponded with any French minister without the knowledge of my colleagues. The n.o.ble and learned Lord on the woolsack may rely on it, that I had no more knowledge of Prince Polignac's proceedings, than the n.o.ble and learned Lord himself; or, most probably, still less. I am not the apologist of Prince Polignac; but, I say, that things had been brought to that state in France, that it was impossible but there should be a revolution.
When I see a similar mode of election established in this country--when I see the adoption of a uniform system of election--when I see the election placed in the hands of shopkeepers in boroughs all over the country--I think that we incur considerable danger, and put the country in such a situation as that no minister can be certain that any one measure which he brings forward will succeed, or that he will he enabled to carry on the Government. The circ.u.mstances of France and England are, in many particulars, alike, and we ought to take warning by the dangers of the neighbouring country.
I wish the House to advert to what the business of the King's Government in Parliament is. It is the duty of that Government to manage everything. I heard the n.o.ble and learned Lord on the Woolsack, in a speech of admirable eloquence and knowledge, propose a new judicial system at the commencement of the Session; but I tell him, that it is impossible for the Government ultimately to decide on that question; and that if a Parliament be constructed on the new plan, it will be too strong for Government on that question. So, also, in matters affecting commerce and manufactures, Government would depend entirely upon Parliament.
I want to hear how Government is to carry any measure, on the appointment of a new Parliament? There is a great question now before the House of Commons on the subject of t.i.thes. How is any Government to meet that question? A Government may submit to the will of a majority opposed to its own view on other questions, but on the question of t.i.thes and the Church, the duty of any Government is clearly pointed out--the King's Coronation Oath, and the Acts of Union with Scotland and Ireland, guaranteeing the integrity of the Church Establishment, and the protection of the estates and prosperity of the Church. But I want to know how Government is to maintain the safety of the Established Church, after placing Parliament on the footing proposed. I really do not wish to carry this argument farther than it will go; but, looking round, and considering the operation of the proposed measure in towns, as well as in counties, and forming the best judgment I can on affairs so complicated, I must infer, from every thing I see, that the Const.i.tution of the country cannot be carried on as. .h.i.therto, if this plan be adopted. In such an event, you would alter your whole system of Government. I do not say the Crown cannot last. You may still permit the King's interference in the management of the army, the navy, and the ordnance; and the rest of the Government may he carried on by the House of Commons. Things may go on under such a system; but this will not be the British Const.i.tution. It will not be the same England, which has been, for so many centuries, prosperous and glorious under our present Const.i.tution.