Volume II Part 16 (1/2)

Came to town Talleyrand, Madame de Dino, and Alava came to Stoke yesterday Talleyrand had a circle, but the Chancellor talked too much, and they rather spoilt one another He said one neat thing

They were talking of Madame d'Abrantes's 'Memoirs,' and of her mother, Madame Pernon My father said, 'M de Marboeuf etait _un peu_ l'amant de Madame Pernon, n'est-ce pas?' He said, 'Oui, mais je ne _sais pas dans quelles proportions_'

Septee Head: STATE OF FRANCE]

News arrived of great riots at Paris, on account of the Polish business and the fall of Warsaw Madame de Dino (who, by-the-bye, Talleyrand says is the cleverest _ht that she despaired of the state of things in France, that this was no anised system of disaffection, and that the Carlists had joined the ultra-Republicans, that the National Guard was not to be depended upon, that 'leur esprit etait fatigue' Talleyrand hience fro I met Lord Grey, and walked with him I told him what Madas were, and that they would be much worse if the Reform Bill was thrown out here I asked hie of Ministry here would have a very bad effect there, fron He said the French Ministry had been very imprudent about Poland I said, 'How? for what could they have done? They could only get at Poland through Prussia'

He said they ht have sent a fleet to the Baltic with our concurrence, though we could not urge theht would be the result of the dissolution of Perier's Governeneral _bouleverse system He replied he did not think there would now be a _bouleversement_, but a Ministry of Lafayette, Lae France into war I said I did not think France could look to a successful war, for the old alliance would be re-forainst her He rejoined that Russia was powerless, crippled by this contest, and under the necessity of reat army in Poland; Austria and Prussia were both combustible, half the provinces of the former nearly in a state of insurrection; that the latter had enough to do to preserve quiet, and the French would rouse all the disaffected spirit which existed in both I said 'then ere on the eve of that state of things which was predicted by Canning in his famous speech' Here we e Villiers, who told me that he knew from a member of the Cabinet that there had been a division in it on the question of going out if the Reform Bill should be rejected, and that it had been carried by aabout Stanley's Arlesey, nor to the Cabinet here, and that Lord Grey had been obliged to write an apology to Lord Anglesey, and to tell him he (Lord Grey) had himself seen the Bill for the first tireat friend of Lord Anglesey's, and who had seen Lord Grey's letter before he left Ireland; but the story appears to me quite incredible, and is probably untrue

CHAPTER XVI

Whig and Tory Meetings on Reform--Resolution to carry the Bill-- Holland--Radical Jones--Reform Bill thrown out by the Lords-- Dorsetshi+re Election--Division a the Tories--Bishop Phillpotts--Prospects of Reforers--Riots at Bristol--The Cholera at Sunderland--An Atteotiates with the Ministers-- Negotiation with Mr Barnes--Proclaainst the Unions-- Barbarism of Sunderland--Disappointotiations with France--Poulett Thomson--Lord Wharncliffe's Proposal to Lord Grey--Disapproved by the Duke of Wellington--Moderation of Lord John Russell--The Appeal of Drax _v_ Grosvenor--The Second Reform Bill--Violence of Lord Durham--More Body-snatchers--Duke of Richer--Creation of Peers--Division of Opinion--Negotiation to avoid the Creation of Peers--Lord Wharncliffe's Intervieith the King--Opposition of the Duke of Wellington--The Waverers resolve to separate froe Head: PROSPECTS OF THE REFORM BILL]

The night before last Croker and Macaulay made two fine speeches on Reform; the former spoke for two hours and a half, and in a way he had never done before Macaulay was very brilliant There was a ton's yesterday, called by him, Lyttelton Lawley, and ofto any resolution) were all agreed to prevail on the Govern rejected in the House of Lords I have no doubt, therefore, in spite of what Lord Grey said, and the other circun, and I doubt whether there will be any occasion for it

There was a dinner at Apsley House yesterday; the Cabinet of Opposition, to discussAt this dinner there were sixteen or seventeen present, all the leading anti-Refor Dudley, as there, told edy first and farce afterwards; for Eldon and Kenyon, who had dined with the Duke of cumberland, came in after dinner Chairs were placed for them on each side of the Duke, and after he had explained to thereed upon, Kenyonof the Bill, in which it was soon apparent that he was very drunk, for he talked exceeding nonsense, wandered fros over and over again When he had done Eldon , and appeared to be equally drunk, only, Lord Bathurst told me, Kenyon in his drunkenness talked nonsense, but Eldon sense Dudley said it was not that they were as drunk as lords and gentlemen sometimes are, but they were drunk like porters Lyndhurst was not there, though invited He dined at Holland House It is pretty clear, however, that he will vote for the second reading, for his wife is determined he shall I saw her yesterday, and she is full of pique and resentainst the Opposition and the Duke, half real and half pretended, and chatters away about Lyndhurst's not being their cat's paw, and that if they choose to abandon him, they must not expect him to sacrifice himself for theo to the House of Lords on Tuesday and support hihaton wrote to her and _desired_ her to influence her husband in the ht be a little in, for vanity is always uppermost, but they have both some motive of interest, which they will pursue in whatever way they best can The excuse they th froton has not yet entered any of his proxies The truth is that I am by no means sure _now_ that it is safe or prudent to oppose the second reading; and though I think it very doubtful if any practicable alteration will be made in Committee, it will be better to take that chance, and the chance of an accommodation and compromise between the two parties and the two Houses, than to attack it in front It is clear that Government are resolved to carry the Bill, and equally clear that no means they can adopt would be unpopular They are averse to o quietly on, without any fresh changes, and I believe they are conscientiously persuaded that this Bill is the least deet the country to accept, and that if offered in time this one will be accepted I had heard before that the country is not enamoured of this Bill, but I fear that it is true that they are only indifferent to the Conservative clauses of it (if I may so term them), and for that reason it may be doubtful whether there would not be such a clamour raised in the event of the rejection of this Bill as would compel the Ministers to make a new one,clearly appears to be inevitable, why, the sooner it is done the better, for at least one iitation, and restoring the country to good-humour, and it is desirable that the House of Lords should stand as ith the people as it can It is better, as Burke says, 'to do early, and froed to do frohted with Reform than I have ever been, but it is the part of prudence to take into consideration the present and the future, and not to harp upon the past It matters not how the country has been worked up to its present state, if a calm observation convinces us that the spirit that has been raised cannot be allayed, and that is very clear to me

September 24th, 1831 {p199}

Peel closed the debate on Thursday night with a very fine speech, the best (one of his opponents toldthe opinions of friends if a candid opponent is to be found) he had ever made, not only on that subject, but on any other; he cut Macaulay to ribands Macaulay is very brilliant, but his speeches are harangues and never replies; whereas Peel's long experience and real talent for debate give hie in the power of reply, which he very eminently possesses Macaulay, however, will probably be a very distinguished man These debates have elicited a vast deal of talent, and have served as touchstones to try real ood understanding can do, there is Althorp, who now appears to be an excellent leader, and contrives to speak decently upon all subjects, quite as ht that it should not be his business to furnish rhetoric and flowers of eloquence, but good-huentlemanlike virtues

Dined at Richainst the Bill, the women for it They are like the old divisions of families in the Civil Wars

My brother-in-law and sister are just returned from a tour of three weeks in Holland; curious spectacle, considering the state of the rest of Europe, nothing but loyalty and enthusiase family; 2,000,000 of people, and an army of 110,000 men; everybody satisfied with the Government, and no desire for Reforain tranquil, but nobody can tell for how long They bet two to one here that the Refor; and what then? The reed on Hume wanted to pass some violent resolution, but was overruled Milton made a foolish speech, with prospective ness in it, and they separated without having done good or hare Head: PROSPECTS OF THE REFORM BILL]

Caet holidays, and leave Refor and its amusements

Just before I came away I met Lord Wharncliffe, and asked hiuard considers himself a sort of chief of a faction, and one of the heads of the _sans-culottins_ of the present day He wrote to Lord Wharncliffe and said he wished to confer with hi any person he pleased to witness what passed between them Lord Wharncliffe replied that he would call on hily he did so, when the other in very civil terms told him that he wished to try and impress upon his mind (as he was one of the heads of anti-Reforerous it would be to reject this Bill, that all sorts of excesses would follow its rejection, that their persons and properties would be perilled, and resistance would be unavailing, for that they (the Reformers) were resolved to carry their point Lord Wharncliffe asked whether if this was conceded they would be satisfied Jones replied, 'Certainly not;' that they e was not to be defended on any reasonable theory Still, he was not for doing aith it, that he wished the changes that were inevitable to take place quietly, and without violence or confusion After some more discourse in this strain they separated, but very civilly, and without any intemperance of expression on the part of the Reforins in the House of Lords, and up to this ti confident, but opinion generally in favour of the Bill being thrown out There is nothing more curious in this question than the fact that it is almost impossible to find anybody who is satisfied with the part he hienerally looked upon as a choice of evils, in which the only thing to do is to choose the least The Reformers say, You had better pass the Bill or you will have a worse The lad to suffer the second reading to pass and alter it in Committee, but they do not dare do so, because the sulky, stupid, obstinate High Tories declare that they will throw the whole thing up, and not atte Every man seems tossed about by opposite considerations and the necessity of acco his own conduct to the caprices, passions, and follies of others

Riddlesworth, October 10th, 1831 {p201}

At Newmarket all last week; all the Peers absent; here since Friday Yesterdaythe newspapers (all in black[1]) announced the defeat of the Reform Bill by a , after five nights' debating By all accounts the debate was a nificent display, and incomparably superior to that in the House of Coreat speakers on either side were:--Lords Grey, Lansdowne, Goderich, Plunket, and the Chancellor, for the Bill; against it, Lords Wharncliffe (who moved the amendment), Harrowby, Carnarvon, Dudley, Wynford, and Lyndhurst The Duke of Wellington's speech was exceedingly bad; he is in fact, and has proved it in repeated instances, unequal to argue a great constitutional question He has neither the coe requisite for such an effort Lord Harrowby's speech was areat effect; and the last night the Chancellor is said to have surpassed all his forood, and Lord Grey very great in reply There was no excite particular happened but the Chancellor being drawn froe by a very poor reater than anybody expected, and it is to be hopedthe necessity of a compromise; for no Minister can make sixty Peers, which Lord Grey must do to carry this Bill; it would be to create another House of Lords nobody knohat the Ministers would do, but it was thought they would not resign Aof members of the House of Coree upon a resolution of confidence in the Governnificent display of eloquence and ability in the House of Lords nity of that House, and I hope increase its efficacy for good purposes and for resistance to this Bill It may be hoped, too, that the apathy of the capital h the unions, which are so well disciplined and under the control of their orators, will h I had taken fright before, and thought it better the Bill should be read a second time than be thrown out by a very small majority

[1] [Not all of thee Head: DORSETshi+RE ELECTION]

While the debates have been going on there have been two elections, one of the Lord Mayor in the City, which the Reformers have carried after a sharp contest, and the contest for Dorsetshi+re between Ponsonby and Ashley, which is not yet over