Part 252 (1/2)
Baltasound, Unst, January 19, 1872, ALEXANDER SANDISON (recalled), examined.
10,480. Are you agent at Uyea Sound for the s.h.i.+pwrecked Mariners' Fund?-I was agent, but there are no members now.
10,481. Have the men ceased to subscribe?-Yes. I think I have not sent up a return for five or six years, not having anything to send.
10,482. Are any of the members of your firm agents in Unst for the Society?-No.
10,483. Do you know anything of a man named Jamieson who was formerly at Uyea Sound, and who was warned out by your firm?- That would be Thomas Jamieson who was at Uyea Sound until three years ago.
10,484. Was he removed from that place shortly after you took your lease?-About a year after.
10,485. He had a shop there?-Yes.
10,486. Is there any stipulation in the lease about shops on the property?-It is so long since I read it that I don't recollect.
10,487. Have you any letters on that subject from Mr. Walker or from Major Cameron?-I cannot tax my memory with receiving any.
10,488. Is it understood that no shops should be opened upon the estate?-That was the understanding.
10,489. And was it in following out that understanding that Jamieson was removed?-Yes.
10,490. Do you know whether a man named John Johnston was removed at Haroldswick in carrying out the same understanding?-I believe he was. He has now a shop near the same place where he was before, on an adjacent estate.
10,491. He removed to Lord Zetland's land?-Yes.
10,492. Is that the case in which the shop was removed bodily across the road?-I believe so, but I cannot speak to that from seeing it.
10,493. I fancy the understanding you mention proceeds upon the footing that you ought, in consideration of the rent you pay to Major Cameron, to have the monopoly of the shop business in the island, so far as he can give it to you?-Yes; that no doubt was the intention.
10,494. And that would be one of the considerations upon which you pay so high a rent?-Yes. I may state that one strong reason why we took the lease at first was, that we believed it was depopulation and sheep farming that was meant, by what we saw taking place in other places; and we also were under the impression that the small tenants could not exist without the scattalds, or if they should have them to pay for; and while, of course, I do not say there was not some selfish design, because we expected to make a living, we also hoped to see them make a living, and we were to try to improve them if we could. However it ends, that was really our design, and the number of small shops which existed stood in the way of that. I have known cases where I would not give luxuries to a man who was in debt, but he would come and get fis.h.i.+ng lines from me, which he said he needed, and he has sold them to other shops in order to supply himself with superfluities. I know one case in which I gave a woman a quarter of a boll of meal, when I would not give her either tea or sugar, and she went and disposed of a portion of the meal to a neighbour in order to get tea, she being then irrecoverably in debt.
10,495. Then you mean to imply that this monopoly was secured partly to save yourselves from debts of that sort, and partly to keep the people in their holdings?-Yes; to keep them from being turned out of the island.
10,496. But also partly to prevent them, when they got into your debt, from spending their money and their produce elsewhere?- Exactly. I may mention that North Yell we had only three fis.h.i.+ng boats this year, and when I settled with them I paid them over 200 in cash. We had no store there, except a small one at the beach or fis.h.i.+ng station, to supply them with the necessaries they wanted and the fis.h.i.+ng materials. We don't cure by contract there, but by beach men, splitters, and boys; and I paid every one in cash as being the simplest and shortest way.
10,497. Is there any arrangement between your firm and any other firm or fish-curer, by which you take over the debts of men who change their service?-There is no arrangement. We try to do that if we can, but we find it rather uphill work.
10,498. Have you ever succeeded in getting a merchant who has engaged a man that formerly fished to you, and who left in your debt, to pay up the man's debt?-Since the company was formed we have had no experience of that, and it would be scarcely possible for me tax my memory just now with cases which had occurred before; but I have no doubt there were cases, in which I tried to do that, whether I succeeded or not.
10,499 If a man left Mr. Mouat, for instance, and was in his debt and came to you, would you pay up the debt which he was due to Mr. Mouat?-Yes; but it was only a peradventure; there was no standing rule on the matter, that I am aware of.
Baltasound, Unst, January 19, 1872, THOMAS ANDERSON, examined.
10,500. You are a fisherman at Haroldswick, and you have fished for some years for Spence & Co?-Yes.
10,501. You have been running accounts with them: during that period, and taking your supplies from them?-Yes; the whole or nearly the whole of my supplies.
10,502. Before that where did you get your supplies?-I had more money to work upon then, and I got my supplies from John Johnston and from Mr. Mouat at Baltasound, and sometimes from Mr. Spence.