Part 242 (1/2)
10,022. But with those who were in debt, that further credit would have the effect of leaving them much more in debt than they were before?-Of course; very much more.
10,023. Is that now in the course of being paid off?-Yes; it is coming back to us very fast, in consequence of more successful fis.h.i.+ngs and better crops.
10,024. Do you not consider that the necessity under which you lay of importing the meal, and advancing it upon credit to the fishermen, was the result of the system, which has been prevailing here, of long settlements, and the undue amount of credit which has been allowed to the men?-I have here a letter which I wrote in 1860, and which represents my views on that subject, and I may as well read an extract from it 'If we don't give unlimited advances, we are told the fishermen will be taken from us. I have now been nearly twelve months in this place (that was after I came first to Uyea), and have closely watched the system pursued by proprietors and others, and certainly agree with you that it is it bad one; but I know I have no right to make any remarks or trouble you with my views on that subject, further than to state that I cannot see any good that will result from burdening the tenants with debt to the fish-curers. It has been my desire, ever since I knew anything about Shetland tenantry, to see them raised in the social scale, and made thoroughly independent, both of proprietors, fish-curers, and others, and I have felt deeply interested in the -- properties, no doubt from being more in contact with them; but when the poor among them are in terror of the proprietors alike, and bound by forced advances to different fish-curers, alas for liberty! and more offered to any fish-curer who will advance more on them. This is not calculated to raise any tenant in self-respect.'
10,025. You speak in that letter of 'forced advances:' what were these?-What I meant by that was this: the proprietor's ground officer or agent in the island, for the time being, told the tenant that he might fish for me this year. I found that he had only 2 or 3 to get, and the ground officer told that tenant that if he did not go to me and get an advance for his rent, he would take him from me and give him to any other man who would advance the rent.
That looked very like forced advances.
10,026. That, however, was in 1860?-Yes.
10,027. Was that a common practice in those times?-I believe that 13 years ago truck existed ten times as much as it does now.
10,028. But in 1860 was it a common thing for a proprietor's ground officer to threaten to remove a tenant unless he could get his rent from the fish-curer?-Yes; to threaten to remove him from the ground unless he could pay his rent, or to move him from a fish-curer who would not give him an advance for that purpose, to some other fish-curer who would do so.
10,029. Have you known instances of fishermen who were treated in that way?-Yes. I was referring to cases of that kind when I was writing that letter. It was my own experience at the time when I was at Uyea Sound as a fish-curer trying to engage any men who came to me. Many came to me and fell into debt, because I found that many of them required more from the shop than their fis.h.i.+ng amounted to; and then I advanced rent after rent, until I saw that I was advancing to my own ruin.
10,030. After advancing rent in that way, have you been informed that they were to be transferred to another fish-curer unless their rent was still advanced by you?-Yes; in more cases than one.
10,031. Were you so informed by the landlord, or by his factor?- It was generally by the tenant himself, when he came seeking the money.
10,032. Were you ever informed of it by the landlord or any one representing him?-No.
10,033. Had you any reason to believe the story which the fishermen told you?-Yes. I believed them, because I knew of the men being taken away sometimes.
10,034. Was that after they had made such statements to you, and although they were in your debt?-Yes.
10,035. Were you able in these cases to make any arrangement with the new employer to pay up their debt?-In some cases we did that, but in other cases we did not; oftener we made no arrangement.
10,036. Why did you not try to secure your debt by arrestment?- Because the proprietor's right of hypothec would cover the man's whole effects.
10,037. But you might have arrested the money in the hands of the new employer?-He might probably have advanced more than the man might catch in the season before he commenced; so that there was nothing to arrest.
10,038. Did you never try to secure your debt in that way?-I have tried it, but have been unsuccessful.
10,039. Have you, within the last 12 years, met with cases of that sort, in which the proprietor endeavoured to coerce you to pay his rent?-Yes. I have had cases where the tenants came asking me for money, and I told them I could not advance them any further.
They would then go away, and come back and tell me that the proprietor's agent or ground officer had informed them that they must get their rent, and that must pay it; and that if I did not do that, they would not be allowed to fish for me.
10,040. Did that system continue until 1868?-No; it prevailed princ.i.p.ally under the ground officers.h.i.+p of Mr. Sinclair, who acted for Mrs. Mouat, in Unst.
10,041. You did not find that system in existence on other estates?-I only came in contact with the tenants on that property.
10,042. Did no other tenants fish for you up till 1868?-No; except Lord Zetland's.
10,043. Have you been obliged in that way to pay rents for Lord Zetland's tenants also?-No, not for Lord Zetland's.
10,044. Only for the late Mrs. Mouat's?-Yes.
10,045. Did that practice cease when the estates pa.s.sed to Major Cameron?-They only pa.s.sed to him at her death last year.
10,046. That was after you had got your lease of the estates?- Yes.