Part 3 (1/2)

Admiral Johnson: It could indeed. I can tell you for a fact that the Navy gained a whole lot of new friends in the U.S. Army as a result of that exercise. Especially when their troops found out that they did not have to eat MREs [Meals, Ready to Eat] during the mission. In fact, here's an interesting piece of trivia from the commanding officers [COs] of those two carriers. It turned out that the soldiers from the two Army aviation units liked Navy chow so much, and ate so much of it, that we had to retool the resupply schedule. The soldiers were just shoveling down all this food on board the s.h.i.+ps. Navy chow is good! It could indeed. I can tell you for a fact that the Navy gained a whole lot of new friends in the U.S. Army as a result of that exercise. Especially when their troops found out that they did not have to eat MREs [Meals, Ready to Eat] during the mission. In fact, here's an interesting piece of trivia from the commanding officers [COs] of those two carriers. It turned out that the soldiers from the two Army aviation units liked Navy chow so much, and ate so much of it, that we had to retool the resupply schedule. The soldiers were just shoveling down all this food on board the s.h.i.+ps. Navy chow is good!

Tom Clancy: Taking the Haiti example a bit further, it is fairly clear that since the end of the Cold War, the Navy has been used for a wide variety of roles and missions-everything from blockades and strike warfare [Persian Gulf] to rescues and humanitarian relief [Balkans and Somalia]. Given that you already do such a wide variety of things so well, what else do you want the Navy to be capable of doing in the 21st century?

Admiral Johnson: You're right, the Navy's pretty flexible! In the future, I think that you're going to see us doing some new things with the Marine Corps. We're finding new ways to organize and structure our forces to accommodate new roles and missions. One specific area that I know we'll be developing is Theater Ballistic-Missile Defense [TBMD], using our Aegis cruisers and destroyers. That's new and exciting stuff that ten years from now will be everyday business, though today it's all leading-edge technology. You're right, the Navy's pretty flexible! In the future, I think that you're going to see us doing some new things with the Marine Corps. We're finding new ways to organize and structure our forces to accommodate new roles and missions. One specific area that I know we'll be developing is Theater Ballistic-Missile Defense [TBMD], using our Aegis cruisers and destroyers. That's new and exciting stuff that ten years from now will be everyday business, though today it's all leading-edge technology.

Tom Clancy: Especially in the absence of a ”blue water” threat, has the Navy gotten down to developing a real doctrine to go with the move to littoral warfare? Especially in the absence of a ”blue water” threat, has the Navy gotten down to developing a real doctrine to go with the move to littoral warfare?

Admiral Johnson: The answer is yes, but I qualify that answer by saying that we're just at the leading edge of getting it done. At the Naval Warfare Doctrine Command, they're looking at how we can take the earlier ”blue-water” doctrine of the Cold War, and embed it in a very solid way into this new reality of littoral warfare. We're trying hard to build new linkages with our various Naval academic inst.i.tutions like the War College [in Newport, Rhode Island], the Postgraduate School [in Monterey, California], and even the Naval Academy [in Annapolis, Maryland], as well as in the tactical and operational sides of the fleet. The answer is yes, but I qualify that answer by saying that we're just at the leading edge of getting it done. At the Naval Warfare Doctrine Command, they're looking at how we can take the earlier ”blue-water” doctrine of the Cold War, and embed it in a very solid way into this new reality of littoral warfare. We're trying hard to build new linkages with our various Naval academic inst.i.tutions like the War College [in Newport, Rhode Island], the Postgraduate School [in Monterey, California], and even the Naval Academy [in Annapolis, Maryland], as well as in the tactical and operational sides of the fleet.

Tom Clancy: Once upon a time, not so long ago, the Navy was seen as not being a good partner in the joint warfare arena. Can you tell us, from the Navy point of view, how you view your corporation and partic.i.p.ation in joint warfare these days? Once upon a time, not so long ago, the Navy was seen as not being a good partner in the joint warfare arena. Can you tell us, from the Navy point of view, how you view your corporation and partic.i.p.ation in joint warfare these days?

Admiral Johnson: Frankly, I don't see Frankly, I don't see any any friction today. I think that's old news. As far as I'm concerned, the Navy is on the leading edge in the joint warfare business these days. In fact, we're committed to it at all levels. Here's a case in point. When we do our carrier battle group [CVBG] and amphibious ready group [ARG] workups, that's all joint. What we used to call a FLEETEX [Fleet Exercise] in the old days is now the JTFEX [Joint Task Force Exercise]. Of course, we still work within our fundamental core sea service [Navy and Marine Corps] competencies during training. But once we get into the JTFEX, it's units like the 2nd Fleet CVBG, the II MEF [Marine Expeditionary Force] MEU [SOC], the XVIII Airborne Corps, the 8th Air Force, and our allies all together. So we are absolutely committed to the joint warfare arena, right down to training within the Joint Training Matrix. This is not the way it was during Desert Storm where the Navy was still ”fighting the feeling.” friction today. I think that's old news. As far as I'm concerned, the Navy is on the leading edge in the joint warfare business these days. In fact, we're committed to it at all levels. Here's a case in point. When we do our carrier battle group [CVBG] and amphibious ready group [ARG] workups, that's all joint. What we used to call a FLEETEX [Fleet Exercise] in the old days is now the JTFEX [Joint Task Force Exercise]. Of course, we still work within our fundamental core sea service [Navy and Marine Corps] competencies during training. But once we get into the JTFEX, it's units like the 2nd Fleet CVBG, the II MEF [Marine Expeditionary Force] MEU [SOC], the XVIII Airborne Corps, the 8th Air Force, and our allies all together. So we are absolutely committed to the joint warfare arena, right down to training within the Joint Training Matrix. This is not the way it was during Desert Storm where the Navy was still ”fighting the feeling.”

That does not mean that we have solved all of our challenges. Full utilization of CTAPS [the joint theater air planning tool] and distribution of the ATO [Air Tasking Order] is still giving us problems, but by and large, we're on board in the joint arena. I might add that we're proud to be part of it, because that's the way that we're going to be fighting in the future as a nation.

Tom Clancy: One of the most interesting joint training exercises that has been run recently is Operation Tandem Thrust, down in Australia. Can you tell us about it? One of the most interesting joint training exercises that has been run recently is Operation Tandem Thrust, down in Australia. Can you tell us about it?

Admiral Johnson: You have to remember that we have a ”special” relations.h.i.+p with Australia, one that has been critical to both countries in this century. Tandem Thrust is just another cla.s.sic example of that relations.h.i.+p. We just came back from Operation Tandem Thrust. It was You have to remember that we have a ”special” relations.h.i.+p with Australia, one that has been critical to both countries in this century. Tandem Thrust is just another cla.s.sic example of that relations.h.i.+p. We just came back from Operation Tandem Thrust. It was huge, huge, involving over 22,000 U.S. Army, Navy, Marine Corps, and Air Force personnel. We accomplished our objectives and I think everybody learned a great deal. involving over 22,000 U.S. Army, Navy, Marine Corps, and Air Force personnel. We accomplished our objectives and I think everybody learned a great deal.

When you are running a large military exercise, one of the biggest considerations is the matter of finding new range s.p.a.ces for the joint forces to exercise and train in. If you talk with Chuck Krulak, he'll tell you about his interest in using some of the range facilities in Australia. They are beautiful! beautiful! And the Royal Australian Navy and the rest of their forces are just superb to work with. They are And the Royal Australian Navy and the rest of their forces are just superb to work with. They are wonderful wonderful allies. Australia is an amazing country-just eighteen million people on a land ma.s.s the size of the continental United States. You see that when you fly over the place. You just fly for hours and hours and see nothing but open s.p.a.ce. allies. Australia is an amazing country-just eighteen million people on a land ma.s.s the size of the continental United States. You see that when you fly over the place. You just fly for hours and hours and see nothing but open s.p.a.ce.

Tom Clancy: Talk a little more about modernization if you will. Every couple of generations, there seems to be a CNO who, because of timing and circ.u.mstances, defines the U.S. Navy for a period of decades. Elmo Zumwalt filled that role in the 1970's, since so much of what the Navy uses today was defined, designed, or built during his tenure. You seem to be in a similar situation today in the 1990's. Given this notion, what kinds of things do Talk a little more about modernization if you will. Every couple of generations, there seems to be a CNO who, because of timing and circ.u.mstances, defines the U.S. Navy for a period of decades. Elmo Zumwalt filled that role in the 1970's, since so much of what the Navy uses today was defined, designed, or built during his tenure. You seem to be in a similar situation today in the 1990's. Given this notion, what kinds of things do you you want this Navy to do? want this Navy to do?

Admiral Johnson: I think that what we're trying to cast for tomorrow and the future is to be able to say five, ten, twenty, even twenty-five years from now, that this Navy is really relevant. We need to know that the Navy is giving the country a presence force that can still respond across the full spectrum of crises or requirements that the country asks them to respond to. We don't even know for sure what kinds of crises we'll be facing in that distant future. But the decisions we make today will have a direct impact on our readiness tomorrow. I think that what we're trying to cast for tomorrow and the future is to be able to say five, ten, twenty, even twenty-five years from now, that this Navy is really relevant. We need to know that the Navy is giving the country a presence force that can still respond across the full spectrum of crises or requirements that the country asks them to respond to. We don't even know for sure what kinds of crises we'll be facing in that distant future. But the decisions we make today will have a direct impact on our readiness tomorrow.

In general terms, we know exactly where we're going. The new equipment we're building and the new shaping of the force that we are currently going through are very important to us, as is the way we push ourselves into the next century. It's very exciting, though somewhat daunting, to be in this job at a time when the infrastructure is under development to this degree, but I think we're building a marvelous future for the Navy. In my opinion, the future Navy will still be anch.o.r.ed in the carrier battle group with its air wing, in the amphibious ready group and the embarked Marine Expeditionary Unit. These are the two core a.s.sets that the sea services give to the country. I want that to be clearly conveyed as we move forward into the next century.

Tom Clancy: Let's talk a little more about that issue of ”forward presence.” Several years ago when we interviewed General Krulak [the current Commandant of the Marine Corps], he described it as: ”A native in a canoe is able to reach out and touch the gray-painted hull of an American wars.h.i.+p in Let's talk a little more about that issue of ”forward presence.” Several years ago when we interviewed General Krulak [the current Commandant of the Marine Corps], he described it as: ”A native in a canoe is able to reach out and touch the gray-painted hull of an American wars.h.i.+p in his his territory.” How does that match up with your vision for American presence in the 21st century? territory.” How does that match up with your vision for American presence in the 21st century?

Admiral Johnson: The strength of our forward presence is exactly that. The recent Quadrennial Defense Review provided for a strategic vision that carried with it the three elements or phases of military power that our nation requires. These are shaping, responding, and preparing. We've talked a lot in this interview about responding and preparing. So let's take a little time to talk about shaping the world's military situation. The strength of our forward presence is exactly that. The recent Quadrennial Defense Review provided for a strategic vision that carried with it the three elements or phases of military power that our nation requires. These are shaping, responding, and preparing. We've talked a lot in this interview about responding and preparing. So let's take a little time to talk about shaping the world's military situation.

That's what we do every day. That's why we have 350 s.h.i.+ps afloat in the world's oceans right now. That's the guy in the canoe who touches the side of our our gray-hulled s.h.i.+ps. We believe that's a tremendously powerful mission, both for our Navy and the country, because of what it means to the rest of the world. You know, even if that man in the canoe can't touch our s.h.i.+p, but can only see it and watch it come and go as it pleases, then that sends a message of great strength to him and to all the other people who see what we can do. Because we're out there, the world is changed every day. gray-hulled s.h.i.+ps. We believe that's a tremendously powerful mission, both for our Navy and the country, because of what it means to the rest of the world. You know, even if that man in the canoe can't touch our s.h.i.+p, but can only see it and watch it come and go as it pleases, then that sends a message of great strength to him and to all the other people who see what we can do. Because we're out there, the world is changed every day.

Tom Clancy: Let's talk a little about the material side of the Navy these days. All the s.h.i.+ps, aircraft, and other things that were bought during the Reagan Administration are now almost fifteen years old. Military spending has been significantly reduced in recent years. Are you having problems modernizing and reconst.i.tuting the Navy for the 21 st century? Let's talk a little about the material side of the Navy these days. All the s.h.i.+ps, aircraft, and other things that were bought during the Reagan Administration are now almost fifteen years old. Military spending has been significantly reduced in recent years. Are you having problems modernizing and reconst.i.tuting the Navy for the 21 st century?

Admiral Johnson: I would not categorize the Navy's needs at this stage as problems. I think of them as opportunities, and I would say that the future looks promising. I'm just sorry that I'm not going to be a JO [junior officer] to take advantage of all the things we're going to be getting in the future. I would not categorize the Navy's needs at this stage as problems. I think of them as opportunities, and I would say that the future looks promising. I'm just sorry that I'm not going to be a JO [junior officer] to take advantage of all the things we're going to be getting in the future.

If you look at the programs that we've got on the boards for the next decade, it's a long list. There are the DDG-51-cla.s.s Aegis destroyers, which we are continuing to build at a rate of between three and four a year. We're getting those s.h.i.+ps at between $800 and $900 million a copy, depending upon whose numbers you use, which is quite a bargain. I know that sounds like a lot of money for a tin can [the traditional nickname for destroyers], but it's a pretty impressive tin can!After the Aegis, the next cla.s.s of surface combatant will be the Surface Combatant-21 [SC-21], which we're just coming to clarity on right now. The first phase of that program will give us what we call a ”land attack” destroyer or ”DD-21.” Downstream from that will probably be a group of those s.h.i.+ps that will begin to replace the early units of the Aegis fleet.We can be sure of one thing-SC-21 is going to have to be much more affordable than the DDG-51's. That's the bottom-line challenge in all this. That's why we're invested in something called ”Smart s.h.i.+p” [the USS Yorktown [CG-48], which is being outfitted]. We want to see what we can learn about making these s.h.i.+ps not only less expensive to buy, but to operate and maintain as well.But they'll never be cheap. You have to remember that Navy combatants are not cruise s.h.i.+ps. They need to have combat capability all all the time. How you make the different trade-offs for crew size, displacement, engineering plants, weapons, sensors, and other things is very, very important. One day, lives may depend on how well we make our decisions now. the time. How you make the different trade-offs for crew size, displacement, engineering plants, weapons, sensors, and other things is very, very important. One day, lives may depend on how well we make our decisions now.

Tom Clancy: What other new cla.s.ses of wars.h.i.+ps do you have on the horizon? I know that the first of the new-generation s.h.i.+ps will be the What other new cla.s.ses of wars.h.i.+ps do you have on the horizon? I know that the first of the new-generation s.h.i.+ps will be the San Antonio-cla.s.s San Antonio-cla.s.s [LPD-17] amphibious s.h.i.+ps, which are under construction right now. [LPD-17] amphibious s.h.i.+ps, which are under construction right now.

Admiral Johnson: The The San Antonio-cla.s.s San Antonio-cla.s.s [LPD-17] amphibious s.h.i.+p replaces four different cla.s.ses of older s.h.i.+ps in just one hull. It's an important s.h.i.+p to me, as well as to Chuck Krulak [the Commandant of the Marine Corps]. As you know, the ARG [Amphibious Ready Group] of the 21st century is going to be a three-s.h.i.+p force. There will be a big deck aviation/amphibious s.h.i.+p like a [LPD-17] amphibious s.h.i.+p replaces four different cla.s.ses of older s.h.i.+ps in just one hull. It's an important s.h.i.+p to me, as well as to Chuck Krulak [the Commandant of the Marine Corps]. As you know, the ARG [Amphibious Ready Group] of the 21st century is going to be a three-s.h.i.+p force. There will be a big deck aviation/amphibious s.h.i.+p like a Tarawa Tarawa [LHA-1] or Wasp [LHD-1], one of the [LHA-1] or Wasp [LHD-1], one of the Whidbey Island Whidbey Island [LSD-41] or [LSD-41] or Harpers Ferry- Harpers Ferry-cla.s.s [LSD-49] dock s.h.i.+ps, and a San Antonio. San Antonio. That That San Antonio-cla.s.s San Antonio-cla.s.s s.h.i.+p is going to be the insh.o.r.e fighter, which will launch the new AAAV amphibious tractors, as well as air-cus.h.i.+oned landing craft and helicopters. s.h.i.+p is going to be the insh.o.r.e fighter, which will launch the new AAAV amphibious tractors, as well as air-cus.h.i.+oned landing craft and helicopters.

The design and mix of the ARG and these new s.h.i.+ps will give us the ability to fight both in the littorals and in the ”blue water” of the open oceans. It's going to be an awesome platform. That s.h.i.+p is coming along well, as well as CVN-77, which we see as a transition carrier to take us to some technological developments on our way to the next generation of carrier, the CVX.

Tom Clancy: Tell us some more about the CVN-77, if you would. Tell us some more about the CVN-77, if you would.

Admiral Johnson: Some of the improvements we contemplate for it are not unlike what we're doing with the Aegis cruiser Some of the improvements we contemplate for it are not unlike what we're doing with the Aegis cruiser Yorktown, Yorktown, which we're adding a number of different automation systems to for things like a.s.sistance on the bridge, damage control monitoring, and a fiber-optic local area network [LAN] backbone. These improvements are designed to reduce the manning of the Aegis platforms, if it proves practical. We want to see what technology can do for us as a practical matter on future combatants. Once we've been to school on that, then we will do the same kinds of things with CVN-77. which we're adding a number of different automation systems to for things like a.s.sistance on the bridge, damage control monitoring, and a fiber-optic local area network [LAN] backbone. These improvements are designed to reduce the manning of the Aegis platforms, if it proves practical. We want to see what technology can do for us as a practical matter on future combatants. Once we've been to school on that, then we will do the same kinds of things with CVN-77.

We think technological improvements will help us a lot on the road to our future carrier designs, especially with regards to things like size, shape, and manning, which are some of the critical design factors that determine the costs of new s.h.i.+ps. So the plan right now is that CVN-77 will indeed be a transition s.h.i.+p to take us to CVX. We feel that it is the right thing to do. We're going to make it just different enough through a ”Smart s.h.i.+p/Smart Buy” concept. What we're trying to do is to leverage technology to do things differently and with fewer people, and let technology make the Naval platforms of the next century even smarter and better than the ones we have right now.