Volume II Part 34 (1/2)

N. H. no. Mas. abs^t. C^t div^d. N. Jersey ay. P^a ay. Del. ay.

M^d div^d. V^a ay. N. C. no. S. C. no. Geo. no.

The consideration of the remaining clauses of Sect. 1. art. X. was then postponed till tomorrow at the instance of the Deputies of New Jersey.

Sect. 2. Art: X being taken up, the word information was transposed & inserted after ”Legislature.”

On motion of M^r Gov^r Morris, ”he may” was struck out, & ”and” inserted before ”recommend” in the clause 2^d sect 2^d art: X. in order to make it the _duty_ of the President to recommend, & thence prevent umbrage or cavil at his doing it.

M^r Sherman objected to the sentence ”and shall appoint officers in all cases not otherwise provided for by this Const.i.tution.” He admitted it to be proper that many officers in the Executive Department should be so appointed--but contended that many ought not, as general officers in the army in time of peace &c. Herein lay the corruption in G. Britain. If the Executive can model the army, he may set up an absolute Government; taking advantage of the close of a war and an army commanded by his creatures. James 2^d was not obeyed by his officers because they had been appointed by his predecessors not by himself. He moved to insert ”or by law” after the word ”Const.i.tution.”

On motion of M^r Madison ”officers” was struck out and ”to offices”

inserted, in order to obviate doubts that he might appoint officers without a previous creation of the offices by the Legislature.

On the question for inserting ”or by law” as moved by M^r Sherman

N. H. no. Mas. no. C^t ay. N. J. no. Pen^a no. Del. no.

M^d no. V^a no. N. C. absent. S. C. no. Geo. no.

M^r d.i.c.kinson moved to strike out the words ”and shall appoint to offices in all cases not otherwise provided for by this Const.i.tution”

and insert--”and shall appoint to all offices established by this Const.i.tution, except in cases herein otherwise provided for, and to all offices which may hereafter be created by law.”

M^r Randolph observed that the power of appointments was a formidable one both in the Executive & Legislative hands--and suggested whether the Legislature should not be left at liberty to refer appointments in some cases, to some State authority.

M^r d.i.c.kenson's motion, it pa.s.sed in the affirmative.

N. H. no. Mas. no. C^t ay. N. J. ay. P^a ay. Del. no. M^d ay.

V^a ay. N. C. abs^t. S. C. no. Geo. ay.

M^r d.i.c.kinson then moved to annex to his last amendment ”except where by law the appointment shall be vested in the Legislatures or Executives of the several States.” M^r Randolph 2^{ded} the motion.

M^r Wilson. If this be agreed to it will soon be a standing instruction from the State Legislatures to pa.s.s no law creating offices, unless the app^{ts} be referred to them.

M^r Sherman objected to ”Legislatures” in the motion, which was struck out by consent of the movers.

M^r Gov^r Morris. This would be putting it in the power of the States to say, ”You shall be viceroys but we will be viceroys over you”--

The motion was negatived without a Count of the States--

Ordered unanimously that the order respecting the adjournment at 4 OClock be repealed, & that in future the House a.s.semble at 10 OC. & adjourn at 3 OC.

Adjourned.

SAt.u.r.dAY AUGUST 25. 1787. IN CONVENTION

The 1^{st} clause of 1 Sect. of art: VII being reconsidered

Col. Mason objected to the term ”_shall_”--fullfil the engagements & discharge the debts &c. as too strong. It may be impossible to comply with it. The Creditors should be kept in the same plight. They will in one respect be necessarily and properly in a better. The Government will be more able to pay them. The use of the term _shall_ will beget speculations and increase the pestilent practice of stock-jobbing. There was a great distinction between original creditors & those who purchased fraudulently of the ignorant and distressed. He did not mean to include those who have bought Stock in open market. He was sensible of the difficulty of drawing the line in this case, but he did not wish to preclude the attempt. Even fair purchasers at 4. 5. 6. 8 for 1 did not stand on the same footing with the first Holders, supposing them not to be blameable. The interest they receive even in paper, is equal to their purchase money. What he particularly wished was to leave the door open for buying up the securities, which he thought would be precluded by the term ”shall” as requiring _nominal payment_, & which was not inconsistent with his ideas of public faith. He was afraid also the word ”_shall_,” might extend to all the old continental paper.

M^r Langdon wished to do no more than leave the Creditors in statu quo.