Part 13 (2/2)
The question is, what security does the existing system of laws, as they now stand, afford the church establishment? My lords, I am very dubious as to the amount of security afforded through the means of a system of exclusion from office, to be carried into effect by a law which it is necessary to suspend by an annual act, that admits every man into office whom it was the intention of the original framers of the law to exclude.
It is perfectly true it was not the intention of those who brought in that suspension law originally, that dissenters from the church of England should be permitted to enter into corporations under its provisions. The law was intended to relieve those whom time or circ.u.mstances had rendered unable to qualify themselves according to the system which government had devised. However, the dissenters availed themselves of the relaxation of the law, for the purpose of getting into corporations, and this the law allowed. What security, then, I ask, my Lords, is to be found in the existing system? So far from dissenters being excluded by the corporation and test acts, from all corporations, so far is this from being the fact, that, as must be well known to your Lords.h.i.+ps, some corporations are absolutely and entirely in the possession of dissenters. Can you suppose that the repeal of laws so inoperative as these, can afford any serious obstacle to the perfect security of the church, and the permanent union of that establishment with the state? The fact is, that the existing laws have not only failed completely in answering their intended purpose, but they are anomalous and absurd--anomalous in their origin, absurd in their operation.
If a man were asked the question, at his elevation to any corporate office, whether he had received the sacrament of the church of England, and if he said ”No,” he lost every vote that had been tendered on his behalf, and there was an end of his election, but if, on the contrary, by accident or design, he got in without the question relative to the sacrament being put to him, then the votes tendered for him were held good, and his election valid; so that no power could remove him from the office which he held. I ask, is there any security in that? My n.o.ble friend says, that the original intention of the framers of these acts, was that the sacrament should not be taken by dissenters; but the law requires that a man, on entering into any corporation, shall receive the sacrament, without regard to his religious belief. Thus an individual whose object it is to get into a particular office, may feel disposed, naturally enough, to take the sacrament before his election, merely as a matter of form, and thus a sacred rite of our church is profaned, and prost.i.tuted to a shameful and scandalous purpose. I confess my Lords, I should have opposed this bill, if I thought it calculated to weaken the securities at present enjoyed by the church. However, I agreed not to oppose the bill; though I consented in the first instance to oppose it, in order to preserve the blessings of religious peace. I was willing to preserve the system which had given us this peace for forty years, for during that time the name and the claims of the dissenters not been heard of. But now they have come forward, and their claims are approved of by a great majority of the House of Commons, and the bill has come up to this house. If it be opposed by the majority of this house, it is to be feared, now that the claims are made, that such an opposition will carry hostility throughout the country, and introduce a degree of rancour into every parish of the kingdom, which I should not wish to be responsible for.
_April 17, 1828._
_Additional reasons for repealing the Test Act._
I have not called on your lords.h.i.+ps to agree to this bill because it has been pa.s.sed by the House of Commons; I merely a.s.signed that as one of the reasons which induced me to recommend the measure to your Lords.h.i.+ps.
I certainly did allude to the feeling in favour of the bill which has for some time been growing up in the House of Commons, as a good reason for entertaining it in your Lords.h.i.+ps' house,--but other reasons also operated on my mind. Many individuals of high eminence in the church and who are as much interested as any other persons in the kingdom in the preservation of the Const.i.tution, have expressed themselves as being favourable to an alteration of the law. The religious feelings of those venerable persons disposed them to entertain this measure, because they felt strong objections to the sacramental test. Under these circ.u.mstances, wis.h.i.+ng to advance and preserve the blessings of religious peace and tranquillity; conceiving the present a good opportunity for securing to the country so inestimable an advantage,--I felt it to be my duty to recommend this measure to your Lords.h.i.+ps. It is on all these grounds that I support the bill, and not on the single ground, the circ.u.mstance of its having been carried in the House of Commons, as a n.o.ble Lord has stated. I am not one of those who consider that the best means of preserving the const.i.tution of this country, is by rigidly adhering to measures which have been called for by particular circ.u.mstances, because those measures have been in existence for two hundred years; for the lapse of time might render it proper to modify, if not to remove them altogether.
I admit my Lords, that for about two hundred years, the religious peace of the country has been preserved under these bills; but, when Parliament is discussing the best means of preserving the const.i.tution of the country, it is surely worth while to inquire whether any and what changes, in what have been deemed the securities of the church, can safely be made, so as to conciliate all parties.
All I hope is, that your Lords.h.i.+ps will not unnecessarily make any alteration in the measure, that would be likely to give dissatisfaction; that your Lords.h.i.+ps will not do anything which may be calculated to remove that conciliating spirit which is now growing up,--a spirit that will redound to the benefit of the country, and which, so far from opposing, we ought, on the contrary, to do everything to foster and promote.
_April 21st 1828._
_Emanc.i.p.ation.--Will oppose it, (April 1828,) unless he sees a great change in the government_.
There is no person in this house, whose feelings and sentiments, after long consideration, are more decided than mine are, with respect to the subject of the Roman Catholic claims; and I must say, that until I see a very great change in that question, I certainly shall continue to oppose it.
_April 28th, 1828._
_State of the Poor in Ireland._
I am thoroughly convinced that no part of his Majesty's dominions so imperiously requires the constant and particular attention of his Majesty's servants as Ireland does. A n.o.ble earl has stated that there are in Ireland 8,000,000 of people, the situation of 6,000,000 of whom demands inquiry. He has told your Lords.h.i.+ps likewise, that all the wealth of Ireland is not sufficient to give employment to those people.
Now, certainly, I cannot but think that this is an exaggerated statement on the part of the n.o.ble earl.
It cannot be supposed that there are 6,000,000 of the Irish population who require employment--I cannot admit that the whole of those people are unemployed. It is not true that they suffer this distress at all times,--it is not true that they suffer the same degree of distress in different years; but it is unquestionably true, that they do suffer great distress at various periods, owing to the casualties of the seasons, and to the particular species of food on which they subsist.
Such is the plain fact. The n.o.ble earl has stated, that the people are able to procure that sort of food on which they chiefly live, at the rate of three-farthings a stone. Now, really, if those people do not suffer distress, except that which is occasioned by the untowardness of the seasons; if those 6,000,000 of people can get provisions at the price mentioned by the n.o.ble earl, in favourable seasons,--it does appear to me that the case hardly calls for inquiry, except at a time when their food has failed in consequence of an unproductive season. But then the n.o.ble earl has a.s.serted that the distress arises from want of work, and that it would take more than all the wealth of Ireland to procure employment for the people. ”Let us then,” said the n.o.ble earl, ”relieve the sick, the lame, the aged, and the impotent.” The n.o.ble earl has said, that one of the great evils of Ireland is want of capital; but I must beg leave to tell the n.o.ble earl, that profusion of capital alone will not prevent the existence of a numerous body of poor, and to prove the fact let the n.o.ble earl look to the situation of England. There is no want of capital in this country; the n.o.ble earl has told your lords.h.i.+ps that there are invested here 9,000,000 of capital belonging to Ireland alone; and yet, with all this capital, the support of the poor required last year amounted to no less than 7,000,000 of rates.
_May 21st. 1828._
_Catholic Emanc.i.p.ation._
A n.o.ble friend of mine has stated to the house, that the proposed measure is inconsistent with the const.i.tution, as established at the revolution; and another n.o.ble lord has concurred in that statement. If I had been going to propose a measure which would introduce a predominant Catholic power into Parliament, I should then be doing that which is clearly inconsistent with the const.i.tution. But I am not going to do any such thing. There are degrees of power at least. Will any man venture to say, that Catholic power does not exist at present, either here or in Ireland? I will address myself more particularly to the n.o.ble Lords who have so pointedly opposed me, and I will ask them whether Roman Catholic power was not introduced into Ireland by measures of their own? Did not some n.o.ble lords exert their influence to the utmost to produce that very power, which has rendered a measure like that which I have announced to Parliament absolutely necessary? As such is the case, I implore n.o.ble Lords to look at the situation of the country, and the state of society which it has produced. Whether it has been brought about by the existence of these disabilities, or by the Catholic a.s.sociation, I will not pretend to say; but this I will say, that no man who has looked at the state of things for the last two years, can proceed longer upon the old system, in the existing condition of Ireland, and of mens' opinions on the subject, both in that country and in this. My opinion is, that it is the wish of the majority of the people, that this question should be settled one way or other. It is upon that principle, and in conformity to that wish, that I and my colleagues have undertaken to bring the adjustment of it under the consideration of Parliament.
_February 5, 1829._
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