Volume I Part 10 (2/2)

Lord Beauchamp said, that as far as he understood the intentions of Government, he approved of them--understanding them to go to a complete derilection of the right in terms so as not to be undone again. He entered at large into the arguments against simple repeal; and, in answer to Fitzpatrick, who had dwelt much on the resolution of the Houses of Parliament as speaking the sense of the nation, in contradiction to the Volunteer resolutions, said that he wondered to hear such an argument from him, who took the sense of the people of England in taverns and at clubs, &c., &c.

Fitzpatrick replied to him: went over much the same ground; defended the simple repeal; then retorted upon Lord Beauchamp; and took his pamphlet out of his pocket, and reading his last sentence, that his lips should be closed for ever upon the subject, observed that he, in his turn, was a little surprised, after this, to hear the n.o.ble Lord's lips opened to run a race with Government, &c., &c.

I then desired to explain, that so far from saying that the Bill was to be grounded on the insufficiency of the repeal, I had said the direct contrary, and had stated a few days ago in the House, my full opinion that the faith of Great Britain had thereby been pledged to Ireland upon the avowed principle of putting an end to every idea of legislation and jurisdiction over that kingdom, and that nothing was implied by the present motion which went to impeach that.

Fox then spoke. He went over the ground of simple repeal; defended Grattan and his friends very warmly; and seemed to imply pretty strongly, though he did not quite express it, that you was to abandon--to desert those men of high integrity and honour, whose great abilities were the smallest part of their merit, &c. It is impossible to go over the whole of what he said; but it chiefly turned upon these heads: he said that no Bill would do if there was not confidence; that such a system should be adopted as to ensure this confidence, not to humiliate the Parliament of Great Britain by bringing propositions founded on supposed discontents, &c.; that the judicature was given up, as far as related to appeals, by the repeal of the Declaratory Act; that writs of error were prohibited by the Irish Act; however, a Bill might be necessary to prevent here the exercise of a nugatory jurisdiction; but that if the preamble of that Bill was, as had been stated by Fitzpatrick and Lord Beauchamp, as a case to be approved of, to declare the intention, he did not conceive how it would alter the question at all, for if the repeal was ineffectual, it would not make it less so, &c.

I again got up to desire that it might be understood that I had not said anything which could in any way be construed into an idea of abandoning, of deserting, &c., &c., men of whom I entertained the highest opinion--men in whose integrity I knew Government might confide with safety, and whose abilities were, as he had said, great as they were, the least part of their merit.

Mr. Percival said something about a law to try persons for crimes committed in Ireland in England, and desired we would attend to that, and give it up. I mean to do so. MacDonald asked if it was meant that all idea of legislation and jurisdiction should be given up. Townshend said, undoubtedly.

Pitt then closed the business with great ability. He said that he was happy to find that, although much conversation rather than debate had taken place, much of which he thought superfluous, still, as to the motion and the main object of it, the avowing in direct terms, &c., &c., that had been unanimously agreed to on all sides of the House. He added, in answer to Fox, that he trusted it would be found that the Government was placed, both in England and in Ireland, in the hands of persons who would not less merit the confidence, would adopt measures not less calculated to promote the peace, happiness and prosperity of Ireland, at the same time, with an attention not less scrupulous to the dignity of the English Parliament, than any other man or set of men whatever.

Thus ended this business, without any division or opposition, every man having prefaced his speech with a declaration of his intention not to oppose the motion. I cannot help thinking that, considering all circ.u.mstances, and particularly considering my own very delicate and awkward situation, the whole has not gone off ill. I am impatient to receive your approbation of Dunning's Bill. You see what Fox would say of a preamble.

You must not think of printing this debate, whatever you may do with my speech; because it would not be common justice to other people, whose speeches I have stated so very loosely and shortly, and it would be known for a Government publication. I think, even for mine, you had better wait till you get the English papers, from which it would naturally be copied in Ireland, and then insert mine instead. Adieu.

Ever yours.

I enclose Mornington's account to Grattan.

In my reply to Fox I said, that so far from any desertion, &c., &c., of the Duke of Portland's friends, all that was intended was, in the expressive words of one of those gentlemen: that as it was now necessary that Great Britain should speak again upon the Irish subject, she should speak clearly and openly.

Those are not exactly his words; but they are in his letter to the ”Trala Vol.” Pray find them; for I think they describe the transaction well.

Rumours of resignations and changes, short as the term of the Administration had been up to this time, were beginning to be bruited abroad. As yet there was nothing certain: Pitt was firm, and Shelburne mysterious as usual; but it could no longer be concealed that the Cabinet, in addition to the dangers which threatened it from without, was suffering in its influence from internal dissensions.

MR. W. W. GRENVILLE TO LORD TEMPLE.

Pall Mall, Jan. 25th, 1783.

My dear Brother,

The enclosed memorial of Captain Mingay describes so very hard a case, that I could not resist sending it to you; although the answer which I gave to the Lord Advocate, who put it into my hands, was that it must come through the Commander-in-Chief.

Sir Charles Thompson called upon me with the memorandum upon Sir J. Irvine. He had been ordered by the King to make it out for Lord Shelburne, who referred him through me to you. Upon the last paragraph, I observed that the effects were already sold before the balance due to Government was known. He then proposed the expedient of a temporary pension till a Government should fall, with a provision for applying such proportion of the income of the Government as should be thought fit, in discharge of the debt to the public account.

Bulkeley spoke to me yesterday from Lord Northington, about Lady Ligonier. I desired him to advise Lord Northington, as from himself, to write to you about it. If you should then think you can do anything in it, which I cannot help hoping, the obligation will lay upon Lord Northington and not upon Bulkeley.

Lord Clermont called upon me yesterday. He put in his claim to the Order, to which I gave the answer of non-residence. He said that he was always over in the Parliamentary winter, and had a house and establishment both in Dublin and in the country. I promised to write to you upon it, but gave him little encouragement, nor indeed did he press it much. Townshend tells me the King makes no difficulty about the _cordon bleu_, which of course you will magnify as infinitely more honourable, &c., &c.

The Post-Office here have been making a strange jumble, and have drawn up a most extravagant Act, G.o.d knows why, which they sent to Lord Clermont; I enclose it to you, with my answer to him. We shall be devilishly pressed in the House of Commons about our settlement, as the argument of war is at an end; and yet I doubt whether the people here have either leisure or knowledge sufficient even to talk about it yet. The latter I am sure I have not; and even if I had, I should not think it wise to set the head of every Irish projector here and with you, perfectly afloat. In the meantime it will be matter of some difficulty to parry it.

Did I state to you in my account of the debate, Percival's question about the Act of Henry VIII., under which offences committed in the King's dominions beyond seas are triable in England? I rather think the answer will be, both to that and to what I think Lord Beauchamp will probably move, namely, a repeal of all English Acts, as far as they affect Ireland; that they fall to the ground themselves, except where confirmed by Irish Acts; but that if they were repealed, a question might arise how far even those would continue in force, according to Yelverton's Bill.

Ever yours, W. W. G.

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