Part 24 (2/2)

Judd: Which obviously was a big influence on me because it's a sweet story but it also has some very broad set pieces. That's always fun to do- Larry: You have an ability to mix the crude with the sweet, which is amazing. People talk about laughing one minute and crying the next, but to be repulsed one minute and then enchanted the next? That's a gift.

Judd: I remember watching episodes of Taxi where there would be big, broad comedy and then it would land on something very emotional or sweet and seem to go back and forth with ease. I always think of the episode where Judd Hirsch was addicted to gambling.

Jim: It's so weird. We were just talking about that today, and I got so messed up, being so heavily nostalgic about it because I-that was the best job of my life. There was nothing better for me than Taxi.

Judd: In that scene, Judd Hirsch wants money so badly that he steals it out of Reverend Jim's pocket and then slowly you realize that Reverend Jim knows that he did it and shames him. It's a really powerful moment. Those kinds of turns were very influential to me, in what I try to do. Okay, now we're going to show some clips from our own movies. Do we want to see that?

Larry: Sure. I'm tired of watching them at home.

Judd: I guess, you know, the first one is mine- Larry: That's amazing.

Judd: Well, then it can be topped by yours. You see, if I'm last then I don't look good.

Larry: Of course. We'll do it according to our gifts.

Judd: Exactly. So this is a clip from The 40-Year-Old Virgin. It's a fight scene between Catherine Keener and Steve Carell, where she realizes that they've had twenty dates and it's time for them to have s.e.x for the first time, and he's trying to get out of it. There's some improvisation in here, which is why it seems real-they really went at it for a while.

(Clip from The 40-Year-Old Virgin: It is Trish and Andy's twentieth date.) Larry: Good stuff.

Jim: Were you nervous about that scene? Was it always looming for you?

Judd: Well, when we hired Catherine Keener we were all a little scared of her. It was amusing that she was there, every day, and going really hard-core Method with our movie. We tried hard to make her scenes good, mostly because I thought that she would yell at us if they weren't. For this scene, I wasn't sure how funny it would be. There was a script but then we let them go to town on each other, and then they ended up with this weird Einstein run. A moment like this only works because you're really getting a sense of how Catherine Keener fights in real life.

Larry: She must have had a great time, right?

Judd: She seemed to enjoy that day. I have to say, she fought well. When that scene worked, it surprised me that it could get dark and the laughs could continue. I was really excited by that because it worked in a different way. Okay, now we're going to go to the next clip, which is from Mr. Brooks. Can I say where it's from? Do you want to introduce it?

Jim: Which one is it?

Judd: Broadcast News.

Jim: Oh, yeah. The reason I picked this is because I think of anything that I've ever done-you know, what I got a chance to say in this scene, and it's always a little dangerous to delve into that territory, was and is enormously important to me. So that's why I wanted to show it.

Judd: I know it well and I'm excited.

(Clip from Broadcast News: Aaron tells Jane how awful his time on the desk was, and that he's in love with her.) Judd: That was amazing. A perfect scene, and a perfect movie. It really is, as is Tootsie. They are two movies that just function perfectly in every possible way. What was it like working with Holly Hunter? What was that process like with her?

Jim: It was great. First of all, she and Albert both did four years in acting school, totally trained actors. They both went to Carnegie Mellon. Which is interesting because not a lot of people a.s.sume it about Holly, and not everybody knows it about Albert. She's a very dedicated actress. Well into the shoot, I finally said to her, ”Am I allowed to talk to you about making something funny?” And she really thought about the question. She took it seriously and then she said, ”Yes, you can.”

Judd: What is the gestation period like for one of your screenplays?

Jim: Seasons pa.s.s, years fall away. I take a long time.

Judd: And what about you, Larry?

Larry: First comes the phone call-you know, I'm the odd man out here because you guys get to direct what you write. I get to defend what I write-and not always successfully. I've had every kind of experience, from terrible to rotten, and no two are alike.

Judd: What was the worst?

Larry: We are about to see a clip from Tootsie, which was a difficult process.

Judd: A very painful process. Even though it's combative to make a movie like Tootsie, can you enjoy the final product and see that something good came of it? Or do you watch and think, There are still things that are wrong?

Larry: I know things are wrong. There's one scene-I don't know how it got past continuity, but it depicted a night that was at least four weeks long. That kills me.

Judd: So Tootsie irritates you? It delights us and irritates you. Should we skip the clip? What do we do?

Larry: Oh, I don't care. You can play it or not.

Judd: What specifically about the process was so painful?

Larry: It was a battle of egos and wills and I just withdrew from the combat-which is to say, I was fired. It's better left undiscussed.

Judd: All right, well, let's watch it. Do you want to watch it?

Larry: I'll sit here and look at it. I'll watch it.

(Clip from Tootsie: Michael Dorsey tells his manager, George Fields, that he needs to get off the show.) Judd: We love it.

Larry: I didn't say it wasn't wonderful.

Judd: What was your reaction the first time you saw it?

Larry: I saw it in a screening and I whispered to Sydney Pollack, ”Can you get Jessica Lange out of the picture?” She went on to win the Academy Award, of course, which shows you how smart I am. It was a mix-it's still a mixed bag of feelings.

Judd: Who are other comedy writers-directors that you admire who are currently working today?

Jim: I just always think, whenever I see anybody else's work, how tough it is to get it right. It's so hard to get the opportunity these days to do a film you care about-that you want to make and somebody lets you. Anybody who gets that, for starters, I like. And when it's pulled off, it's just extraordinary.

Judd: I remember there was an event at the Museum of Television and Radio where you talked a little bit about honoring your characters, and I found that inspiring as I was heading into writing Knocked Up. Can you speak a little bit about that, the characters you're creating?

Jim: When I just saw Tootsie-you know, I understand it's genuine and deeply felt, but it's a mountain of a picture. It's one of the greatest films ever. And the fact that people walk away not all feeling wonderful shows how tough it is all the time. Almost everything we're discussing here is about indelible character. I don't think there's been a clip where that hasn't been true. I think the relations.h.i.+p, when it's allowed to happen, between writers and actors is just-it's what we're all there for.

Judd: How much do you think of the audience when you're writing-or do you primarily write for yourself and not worry about what they'll get?

Larry: I don't worry about what they'll get. I write for myself on the a.s.sumption that there are a number of people who have similar sensibilities and will appreciate what it is that I thought was good enough to present, not to them but to me.

Jim: Well, on the ride to the preview, any thought of writing for yourself leaves me. Let me tell you the greatest story about people who genuinely work for themselves: John Ca.s.savetes did a picture called Husbands and Time magazine called it the greatest film ever made, and you can certainly make the argument for it. They had a scene that took place in a john, which maybe was twenty minutes long. It was Peter Falk, and Ca.s.savetes and- Larry: Ben Gazzara.

Jim: Ben Gazzara. They were pals and they basically started independent film. They were standing at the back of an audience-and I heard this from Ca.s.savetes, this story-and people started leaving the theater during that scene, considering it so awful. And they clapped each other on the back and said, ”We did it.” That's a true story.

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