Part 238 (1/2)
Mr. SCHUREMAN (of N.J.) hoped the gentleman would withdraw his motion, because the present was not the time or place for introducing the business; he thought it had better be brought forward in the House, as a distinct proposition. If the gentleman persisted in having the question determined, he would move the previous question if he was supported.
Mr. MADISON, (of Va.) I cannot concur with gentlemen who think the present an improper time or place to enter into a discussion of the proposed motion; if it is taken up in a separate view, we shall do the same thing at a greater expense of time. But the gentlemen say that it is improper to connect the two objects, because they do not come within the t.i.tle of the bill. But this objection may be obviated by accommodating the t.i.tle to the contents; there may be some inconsistency in combining the ideas which gentlemen have expressed, that is, considering the human race as a species of property; but the evil does not arise from adopting the clause now proposed, it is from the importation to which it relates. Our object in enumerating persons on paper with merchandise, is to prevent the practice of actually treating them as such, by having them, in future, forming part of the cargoes of goods, wares, and merchandise to be imported into the United States. The motion is calculated to avoid the very evil intimated by the gentleman. It has been said that this tax will be partial and oppressive: but suppose a fair view is taken of this subject, I think we may form a different conclusion. But if it be partial or oppressive, are there not many instances in which we have laid taxes of this nature? Yet are they not thought to be justified by national policy? If any article is warranted on this account, how much more are we authorized to proceed on this occasion? The dictates of humanity, the principles of the people, the national safety and happiness, and prudent policy requires it of us; the const.i.tution has particularly called our attention to it--and of all the articles contained in the bill before us, this is one of the last I should be willing to make a concession upon so far as I was at liberty to go, according to the terms of the const.i.tution or principles of justice--I would not have it understood that my zeal would carry me to disobey the inviolable commands of either.
I understood it had been intimated, that the motion was inconsistent or unconst.i.tutional. I believe, sir, my worthy colleague has formed the words with a particular reference to the Const.i.tution; any how, so far as the duty is expressed, it perfectly accords with that instrument; if there are any inconsistencies in it, they may be rectified; I believe the intention is well understood, but I am far from supposing the diction improper. If the description of the persons does not accord with the ideas of the gentleman from Georgia, (Mr.
JACKSON,) and his idea is a proper one for the committee to adopt, I see no difficulty in changing the phraseology.
I conceive the Const.i.tution, in this particular, was formed in order that the government, whilst it was restrained from laying a total prohibition, might be able to give some testimony of the sense of America, with respect to the African trade. We have liberty to impose a tax or duty upon the importation of such persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit; and this liberty was granted, I presume, upon two considerations--the first was, that until the time arrived when they might abolish the importation of slaves, they might have an opportunity of evidencing their sentiments, on the policy and humanity of such a trade; the other was that they might be taxed in due proportion with other articles imported; for if the possessor will consider them as property, of course they are of value and ought to be paid for. If gentlemen are apprehensive of oppression from the weight of the tax, let them make an estimate of its proportion, and they will find that it very little exceeds five per cent ad valorem, so that they will gain very little by having them thrown into that ma.s.s of articles, whilst by selecting them in the manner proposed, we shall fulfil the prevailing expectation of our fellow citizens, and perform our duty in executing the purposes of the Const.i.tution. It is to be hoped that by expressing a national disapprobation of this trade, we may destroy it, and save ourselves from reproaches, and our posterity the imbecility ever attendant on a country filled with slaves.
I do not wish to say anything harsh, to the hearing of gentlemen who entertain different sentiments from me, or different sentiments from those I represent; but if there is any one point in which it is clearly the policy of this nation, so far as we const.i.tutionally can, to vary the practice of obtaining under some of the State governments, it is this; but it is certain a majority of the States are opposed to this practice, therefore, upon principle, we ought to discountenance it as far as is in our power.
If I was not afraid of being told that the representatives of the several States, are the best able to judge of what is proper and conducive to their particular prosperity, I should venture to say that it is as much the interest of Georgia and South Carolina, as of any in the Union. Every addition they receive to their number of slaves, tends to weaken them and renders them less capable of self defence. In case of hostilities with foreign nations, they will be the means of inviting attack instead of repelling invasion. It is a necessary duty of the general government to protect every part of the empire against danger, as well internal as external; every thing therefore which tends to increase this danger, though it may be a local affair, yet if it involves national expense or safety, becomes of concern to every part of the Union, and is a proper subject for the consideration of those charged with the general administration of the government. I hope, in making these observations, I shall not be understood to mean that a proper attention ought not to be paid to the local opinions and circ.u.mstances of any part of the United States, or that the particular representatives are not best able to judge of the sense of their immediate const.i.tuents.
If we examine the proposed measure by the agreement there is between it, and the existing State laws, it will show us that it is patronized by a very respectable part of the Union. I am informed that South Carolina has prohibited the importation of slaves for several years yet to come; we have the satisfaction then of reflecting that we do nothing more than their own laws do at this moment. This is not the case with one State. I am sorry that her situation is such as to seem to require a population of this nature, but it is impossible in the nature of things, to consult the national good without doing what we do not wish to do, to some particular part. Perhaps gentlemen contend against the introduction of the clause, on too slight grounds. If it does not conform with the t.i.tle of the bill, alter the latter; if it does not conform to the precise terms of the Const.i.tution, amend it.
But if it will tend to delay the whole bill, that perhaps will be the best reason for making it the object of a separate one. If this is the sense of the committee I shall submit.
Mr. GERRY (of Ma.s.s.) thought all duties ought to be laid as equal as possible. He had endeavored to enforce this principle yesterday, but without the success he wished for, he was bound by the principles of justice therefore to vote for the proposition; but if the committee were desirous of considering the subject fully by itself, he had no objection, but he thought when gentlemen laid down a principle, they ought to support it generally.
Mr. BURKE (of S.C.) said, gentlemen were contending for nothing; that the value of a slave, averaged about 80, and the duty on that sum at five per cent, would be ten dollars, as congress could go no farther than that sum, he conceived it made no difference whether they were enumerated or left in the common ma.s.s.
Mr. MADISON, (of Va.) If we contend for nothing, the gentlemen who are opposed to us do not contend for a great deal; but the question is, whether the five per cent ad valorem, on all articles imported, will have any operation at all upon the introduction of slaves, unless we make a particular enumeration on this account; the collector may mistake, for he would not presume to apply the term goods, wares, and merchandise to any person whatsoever. But if that general definition of goods, wares and merchandise are supposed to include African Slaves, why may we not particularly enumerate them, and lay the duty pointed out by the Const.i.tution, which, as gentlemen tell us, is no more than five per cent upon their value; this will not increase the burden upon any, but it will be that manifestation of our sense, expected by our const.i.tuents, and demanded by justice and humanity.
Mr. BLAND (of Va.) had no doubt of the propriety or good policy of this measure. He had made up his mind upon it, he wished had never been introduced into America; but if it was impossible at this time to cure the evil, he was very willing to join in any measures that would prevent its extending farther. He had some doubts whether the prohibitory laws of the States were not in part repealed. Those who had endeavored to discountenance this trade, by laying a duty on the importation, were prevented by the Const.i.tution from continuing such regulation, which declares, that no State shall lay any impost or duties on imports. If this was the case, and he suspected pretty strongly that it was, the necessity of adopting the proposition of his colleague was now apparent.
Mr. SHERMAN (of Ct.) said, the Const.i.tution does not consider these persons as a species of property; it speaks of them as persons, and says, that a tax or duty may be imposed on the importation of them into any State which shall permit the same, but they have no power to prohibit such importation for twenty years. But Congress have power to declare upon what terms persons coming into the United States shall be ent.i.tled to citizens.h.i.+p; the rule of naturalization must however be uniform. He was convinced there were others ought to be regulated in this particular, the importation of whom was of an evil tendency, he meant convicts particularly. He thought that some regulation respecting them was also proper; but it being a different subject, it ought to be taken up in a different manner.
Mr. MADISON (of Va.) was led to believe, from the observation that had fell from the gentlemen, that it would be best to make this the subject of a distinct bill: he therefore wished his colleague would withdraw his motion, and move in the house for leave to bring in a bill on the same principles.
Mr. PARKER (of Va.) consented to withdraw his motion, under a conviction that the house was fully satisfied of its propriety. He knew very well that these persons were neither goods, nor wares, but they were treated as articles of merchandise. Although he wished to get rid of this part of his property, yet he should not consent to deprive other people of theirs by any act of his without their consent.
The committee rose, reported progress, and the house adjourned.
FEBRUARY 11th, 1790.
Mr. LAWRANCE (of New York,) presented an address from the society of Friends, in the City of New York; in which they set forth their desire of co-operating with their Southern brethren.
Mr. HARTLEY (of Penn.) then moved to refer the address of the annual a.s.sembly of Friends, held at Philadelphia, to a committee; he thought it a mark of respect due so numerous and respectable a part of the community.
Mr. WHITE (of Va.) seconded the motion.
Mr. SMITH, (of S.C.) However respectable the pet.i.tioners may be, I hope gentlemen will consider that others equally respectable are opposed to the object which is aimed at, and are ent.i.tled to an opportunity of being heard before the question is determined. I flatter myself gentlemen will not press the point of commitment to-day, it being contrary to our usual mode of procedure.
Mr. FITZSIMONS (of Penn.) If we were now about to determine the final question, the observation of the gentleman from South Carolina would apply; but, sir, the present question does not touch upon the merits of the case; it is merely to refer the memorial to a committee, to consider what is proper to be done; gentlemen, therefore, who do not mean to oppose the commitment to-morrow, may as well agree to it to-day, because it will tend to save the time of the house.
Mr. JACKSON (of Geo.) wished to know why the second reading was to be contended for to-day, when it was diverting the attention of the members from the great object that was before the committee of the whole? Is it because the feelings of the Friends will be hurt, to have their affair conducted in the usual course of business? Gentlemen who advocate the second reading to-day, should respect the feelings of the members who represent that part of the Union which is princ.i.p.ally to be affected by the measure. I believe, sir, that the latter cla.s.s consists of as useful and as good citizens as the pet.i.tioners, men equally friends to the revolution, and equally susceptible of the refined sensations of humanity and benevolence. Why then should such particular attention be paid to them, for bringing forward a business of questionable policy? If Congress are disposed to interfere in the importation of slaves, they can take the subject up without advisers, because the Const.i.tution expressly mentions all the power they can exercise on the subject.
Mr. SHERMAN (of Conn.) suggested the idea of referring it to a committee, to consist of a member from each State, because several States had already made some regulations on this subject. The sooner the subject was taken up he thought it would be the better.
Mr. PARKER, (of Va.) I hope, Mr. Speaker, the pet.i.tion of these respectable people, will be attended to with all the readiness the importance of its object demands; and I cannot help expressing the pleasure I feel in finding so considerable a part of the community attending to matters of such momentous concern to the future prosperity and happiness of the people of America. I think it my duty, as a citizen of the Union, to espouse their cause; and it is inc.u.mbent upon every member of this house to sift the subject well, and ascertain what can be done to restrain a practice so nefarious. The Const.i.tution has authorized us to levy a tax upon the importation of such persons as the States shall authorize to be admitted. I would willingly go to that extent; and if any thing further can be devised to discountenance the trade, consistent with the terms of the Const.i.tution, I shall cheerfully give it my a.s.sent and support.
Mr. MADISON, (of Va.) The gentleman from Pennsylvania, (Mr.
FITZSIMONS) has put this question on its proper ground. If gentlemen do not mean to oppose the commitment to-morrow, they may as well acquiesce in it to-day; and I apprehend gentlemen need not be alarmed at any measure it is likely Congress should take; because they will recollect, that the Const.i.tution secures to the individual States the right of admitting, if they think proper, the importation of slaves into their own territory, for eighteen years yet unexpired; subject, however, to a tax, if Congress are disposed to impose it, of not more than ten dollars on each person.